Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:21:06 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: New/old toys! >Dave said: >>I went to a guitar show in eastern Iowa yesterday and horse-traded a >>couple of *great* pieces. :} First, I traded my old Boss Pitch >>Shifter/Delay (my first awful looping device), a fuzz box, and $15 for >>an ADA expression pedal, an ADA quad footswitch, and... a DeltaLabs >>Echotron. > >I've seen these in Black Market music in SF, but never tried it. Seems to >me a friend of mine actually knew something about it. If I remember who it >was, I'll ask him.... > >>The Echotron is just *gorgeous*. It's an early-80s long >>(250ms-4096ms) delay line, with infinite repeat capability. ... > >Sounds like a score! Mind if I lift your text and use it for a little blurb >on the web page? Some day we may manage to get a fairly complete history of >all these funky toys.... > >If you find any more info on it, let me know and I'll put that up there too. I think Andreas Vollenweider started his solo career with a drummer, two percussionists, his harp and a Deltalab for loops. That was in Montreux, probably around '82. Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:21:01 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Amplification > I would love to be proven wrong about this, but you should realise >that I >tried talking myself into exactly that position for almost 20 years. I am >not an >anti-transistor luddite who refused to even consider the possibility you >mention. In fact I use a digital reverb-delay as a supplement to the tube >sound, >to get both digital brittleness and tube warmth. Part of it maybe that the >stick, not having a body, needs that extra tube tone. This is really interesting, since the stick is usually rather disconnected from this sound tradition, but... I would like to hear it. It will be nice when the net will be fast enough so we can attach sound files... >There may be something to your comment about my being connected to the >sixties. When I first played my stick through a fender twin, I realised that I >hadn't heard that sound since I gave up playing guitar 22 years ago, and that I >had not sounded that good since. (My original Fender twin was accidentally set >on fire by a Hendrix clone friend of mine who wrapped tin foil around the fuse >after it blew out) What a karma... > All of of these choices are highly individual, though. I'm not >trying to >convert anybody, just to add my voice to the multitude Sure, all is valid, and in the end all that counts is that you love your sound and can express what you want! Matthias Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:21:15 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: archiving (was: Hello...) >I think the thing we need is some sort of FAQ. We could condense the >interesting discussions into key points and put them in neat categories. As >more interesting discussions occur we can add those. Agreed, but I would not call it so, because many of the contribution are not answers to questions but impulses. >At the same time, I'd still like to an archive of all the messages.There's >no reason we can't have both. Right. >...The server >will be automatically combining messages into a single file on a regular >basis. All I would have to do is put it in the proper directory for the web >page and put a link to it somewhere. How can anyone find something in 250 mails/month? Download it all? Anyway, its far better than nothing... Matthias Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:51:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: archiving Do you have reasonable CGI access at your ISP, Kim? If so, hypermail is a TERRIFIC way to archive mailing lists. It sorts by date or subject, at the user's request. We could just keep the entire archive at Looper's Delight. Speaking of which, is Kim or somebody keeping every post we receive? Finally... we should be able to include at least samples of various profesional artists' works at a web site under the fair use provisions of copyright law. Of course, it'd be nice to ask permission first, but in my experience, musicians are far nicer and friendlier than the record companies that own the actual rights. If I get the chance, I'll try to get some samples of my favorite artists digitized. This leads to another potential problem for Looper's Delight, though... disk space. How are the facilities, Kim? -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing "Louis Collier Hyams" writes: >the phrase wasnot meant that way. >up here (NYC) mixed company is not an expression commonly used. ;-) >it simply meant that I don't have the money to blow on an incomplete(to my >satisfaction) product. ie spend it all in a lump Yeah, I think we know what you meant. It was how you said it that was a touch risque. >ray, I was attempting not to insult your intelligence by reasking if you had >used an ebow... maybe it was a new defective model? it does happen Not taken that way. It works, I just don't seem to "have it down". Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:51:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification "Louis Collier Hyams" writes: >chill manrayogram Uh oh, what did I do now? Making enemies already? Usually that takes me quite a bit longer. Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:10:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: A general thank to everyone I just wanted to tell you all that participate in my buying of the vortex (i.e: al the one talking about this machine, who told me it was not expensive in the U.S, or the one that sent all this Guitar Center addresses....) I got it for 2 days now (it's quite young) and i'm parfectly happy with the machine. I think it is innovative, intelligent, creative, and complex to master. So I can understand why it had no success among guitarists. The idea that you have to tap your tempo for your delay line, but not set it in a programm in ms is truly revolutionnary. a processus with an enveloppe follower for this price is revolutionnary too. Again, Thanks to everyone who helped. Olivier Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:41:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: archiving Dave says: >Do you have reasonable CGI access at your ISP, Kim? If so, hypermail >is a TERRIFIC way to archive mailing lists. It sorts by date or >subject, at the user's request. We could just keep the entire archive >at Looper's Delight. Yes, I think CGI is quite possible. I've never had the time to look into it, but I do have a cgi based hit-counter on my page and that seems to work. I'm quite certain that others at my service provider have much more sophisticated web sites than what I've got so far, so I don't think this sort of thing is a problem. I don't know anything about hypermail, or whether my ISP has it available. The list uses SmartList, which does do some stupid archiving. I think adding various cgi and/or java scripts to the page could be quite useful, especially for searching archives of past list postings. Do people think we really need real sophisticated search and sorting? Seems to me a basic search engine that can find a particular text string would be fine. Seems like this must be fairly easy to do in CGI. I'd also like something where people can subscribe to the list from the page without having to send mail seperately. Like I say, I'm rather ignorant about cgi, so if any of you can help me out with it, I'd appreciate it. >Speaking of which, is Kim or somebody keeping every post we receive? I've got them all, yes. >Finally... we should be able to include at least samples of various >profesional artists' works at a web site under the fair use provisions >of copyright law. Of course, it'd be nice to ask permission first, >but in my experience, musicians are far nicer and friendlier than the >record companies that own the actual rights. If I get the chance, >I'll try to get some samples of my favorite artists digitized. This >leads to another potential problem for Looper's Delight, >though... disk space. > >How are the facilities, Kim? The web site has 20MB of disk space now. We've got a ways to go before that gets filled. More disk space is available, just means more money. I pay for it now, but if it starts expanding hugely we'll have to start seeking donations or something. I guess we could always get Lexicon and Oberheim to advertise, that should cover a kilobyte or two... ;-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Plex Pricing Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:48:43 -0400 > Collier Hyams wrote: >>>matthias and olivier. >>>tupkal is the achronym ... > >Ray helped: >>I think they were wondering about the "shoot my wad" idiom that you so >>skillfully employed. ;-) > >Yes, I did not feel like asking again, but continue curious to learn. >>>I'll tell you that it's a phrase not often uttered in mixed company. I hate to take the edge off of this but the term "shoot your wad" or "I shot my wad" originally is referenced to the days when muzzle loaders (guns) used a "wad" of some type of cloth material to retain the charge of gunpowder and shot in their guns. Since it was a pain to reload, the shooter was generally very careful not to waste his "wad" on a poor shot or something not worth shooting (you get my meaning?). A friend of mine was almost fired from a college lecturing job because he used this term. A mutual friend, who is an avid gun enthusiast, came to his aid with the above information. Steve Murrell Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:14:49 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Wad shooting >Steve Murrell wrote: >I hate to take the edge off of this but the term "shoot your wad" or "I >shot my wad" originally is referenced to the days when muzzle loaders >(guns) used a "wad" of some type of cloth material to retain the charge >of gunpowder and shot in their guns. Since it was a pain to reload, the >shooter was generally very careful not to waste his "wad" on a poor shot >or something not worth shooting (you get my meaning?). Aww, thats no fun. I prefer the more phallic allusion. I cant imagine us getting further off topic than this. Lets get back to looping...before my wad explodes :) Clark Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:18:52 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Memory upgrades Greetings loopsters, I have a technical question for the Oberheim-EDP savy among us. I have just taken delivery of a spankin' new pair of Obies and want to upgrade to the maximum amount of memory ASAP before I enshrine them in my rack. The mannual says it'll take either Mac or PC 30-pin SIMMs. Other "reliable" sources have told me that only Mac compatible SIMMS will do. Which is it? I have been looking around for the best prices on RAM. Some of the best deals I've found come from independent computer techs. These guys offer a dizzying array of stuff, and spout all sorts of unfamiliar terms like: parity or non-parity, mag+BP 4x3-6, 9 chip 4x9-7, etc, etc, etc. Being a Mac-only kind of guy (and usually buying only from the normal "MacMall" type catalogs) it's a new, and to be quite honest, kinda confusing area for me. To get the best price, I'm inclined to go with one of these guys (who happens to be a friend of a friend). But, I know that if I order wrong, it's unlikely that he'll let me return it (30-pin SIMMs are becoming passe I guess). Is there anybody out there who knows the EDP and is also SIMM savy enough to help me sort this out authoratively? Thanks loads Ted Killian Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:36:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Memory upgrades >Greetings loopsters, > >I have a technical question for the Oberheim-EDP savy among us. > >I have just taken delivery of a spankin' new pair of Obies and want to >upgrade to the maximum amount of memory ASAP before I enshrine them in my >rack. The mannual says it'll take either Mac or PC 30-pin SIMMs. Other >"reliable" sources have told me that only Mac compatible SIMMS will do. Which >is it? I think I can reliably answer this question..... Pretty much any 30 pin simm should work. mac/pc, parity/non-parity, 2 chips, 3 chips, 8 chips, 9 chips, whatever. I tested a lot of different simms and never had any problems. It just has to be either 256K, 1M, or 4M, and be faster than 120ns. I haven't seen anything slower than 80ns in a long time, so you shouldn't have to worry about that. oh, you have to install them in pairs too. 4meg simms are less than $30 these days, so you should be able to max out the memory on both your echoplexi for about $250. Has anybody ever had problems with simms they bought? There are so many sources and varieties that there could be some less than reliable types/manufacturers out there. The echoplex was designed to be fairly forgiving about this, so I would guess that problems are not too common. I never really heard any complaints about it anyway. >I have been looking around for the best prices on RAM. Some of the best deals >I've found come from independent computer techs. These guys offer a dizzying >array of stuff, and spout all sorts of unfamiliar terms like: parity or >non-parity, mag+BP 4x3-6, 9 chip 4x9-7, etc, etc, etc. You can also get used memory, which is even cheaper. Slightly risky I guess, but people usually don't do anything too dramatic to their computer memory. >Being a Mac-only kind of guy (and usually buying only from the normal >"MacMall" type catalogs) it's a new, and to be quite honest, kinda confusing >area for me. To get the best price, I'm inclined to go with one of these guys >(who happens to be a friend of a friend). But, I know that if I order wrong, >it's unlikely that he'll let me return it (30-pin SIMMs are becoming passe I >guess). Is there anybody out there who knows the EDP and is also SIMM savy >enough to help me sort this out authoratively? There are some places that charge more but offer much higher quality and reliability. Whatever is more important to you. I'd get the cheap stuff myself. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:23:51 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Memory upgrades **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, Unversity of Arizona, Tucson. ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Kim Flint wrote: ....snip.... > 4meg simms are less than $30 these days, so you should be able to max out > the memory on both your echoplexi for about $250. > > ....snip.... well, well... i think the word we're looking for here is 'echoplicis' - from '-plex,-plicis'- it's a suffix usually formed from numeric words; more or less like saying '-fold' as in 'hundred-fold'. there's also 'plexus-a-um', the past participle of 'plecto, plectere' - to braid or plait... which one was the intended, kim? of course, (vor)vertex, verticis is latin for whirlpool, tornado/whirlwind, or also represents a direction of 'down from above/over head'. it comes from verto, vertere - to turn, to transform and, finally, iamnus persona - well, ok... maybe that's taking it too far. :) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:56:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Latin, and roots AH! Sometimes, these "off-topic" subjects are just exhilarating! A little Latin lessons is always good and fun (well probabaly the only time it was any fun for me). By the way, I got an idea: I was listening to an old piece of music wich is " marche pour la ceremeonie des turcs" from Jean Baptiste Lully (it is a late XVIIth century composer who was the "maitre d'ouuvre" of all the french music under the reign of Louis XIV). This piece is a long orchestrated phrase that repeat itself, and grow in intensity, even though the player don't play really louder. That could be somekind of an ancestor to repetitive, or minimalistic music that lead to specific looping process we use quite daily. What do you al think starting a whole thing about the roots of looping? By the way I'm quite surprised noone talked about Michael Brook... He did numerous interesting things, and I saw him first as asupporting act for the Sylvian/Fripp tour where he played alone with loops..... Olivier Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:00:59 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Latin, and roots Yea, I saw Brooke play w/ S/F. He did a solo beforehand. I was very impressed by his performance. I was not impressed with S/F. Fripp was, at least that night, more a technician than a musician. I found Brook to be much more musical. Also, the mix was terrible. Might have sounded good to those at stage left with their beaucoup $$$ recording gear; but in the paying seats, it *bit*. Because of this experience, I have refrained from going to recent KC concerts. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:52:37 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: archiving Kim asked: >Do people think we >really need real sophisticated search and sorting? Seems to me a basic >search engine that can find a particular text string would be fine. I guess so. > >>Speaking of which, is Kim or somebody keeping every post we receive? > >I've got them all, yes. Me too. I did some work yesterday. Within 3 hours I compiled the following files: Ways and philosophies (is it an instrument?) FeedBack keeps the loop alive Rhythmical creativity using several loopers allways new experiences looper in the 'puter There are still more to create like: Vortex Amplification Works and CDs published bugs and wishes prices and vendors (maybe useless due to quick changes) wad shooting :) I guess I send the files to Kim to see whether he wants to put them on the page. For immdiate use, I offer to send them to anyone who comes new to the list or are interested in creating such files or improving mine. I hope we manage to valorize our contributions more this way and serve the ones that are coming after. Matthias Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:52:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Idiom Thanks to Bryan, Steve and Clark for their kind explanations I see, I cannot ask you english speakers to cut down your poetic creativity, only because of some not so able readers. So lets close down that (very off topic) trip. Matthias Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:52:23 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience This mail by Teed Rockwell accidentally stayed unseen in my IN box. And nobody else answered it. But these nice observations deserves a note: >Other Random observations: > >Don't tread hard on the footswitch if you think that function isn't working >properly. You'll just break the footswitch in about six months. (I did >this with >the "Undo" button.) In switzerland they had to put heavy metall bang proof buttons for passengers trafic lights. Human mind fells that pressing harder makes the light get green sooner...;-) I understand why you hit Undo "desperately". Its really hard to "feel" what its doing. The problem is, that for +Undo+, there *is* a loop start point, even if we do not care because the loop is smoth. And for the machine it does matter if you press it right before or after this moment. I made a file that explaines it better, maybe we can include it in the update manual or in the page. >It seems to me that the Signal to Noise Ratio occasionally deteriorates if you >let the machine get too hot. This could just be an illusion created by the >noise >becoming harder to ignore once you notice it, but I don't think so. Could that be true? Never noticed. Kim? >The undo button is essentially useless without lots of extra memory, but >terrific once you've got the memory. If you've built up to a certain level of >layering, play lots of chords while steping on the undo button alot and >when the >chords die away you get you're starting loop back, ready to be build up. Yes I use it also for composing. I love to superpose 10 hot solo lines and when its really thick, I +Undo+ back to the modest inicial bass line. >Playing the same pattern over and over again with the overdub button on >>creates a sound like a really cool digital delay. >If you want to sound like an Ordinary delay unit, set the Feedback at about >twelve o'clock, and keep the Overdub button on. Right! Thats why I never use the Delay Mode. >I find it easier to work with the feedback knob than a feedback pedal. You can >position the knob in a variety of diffferent ways, and remember what those >positions sound like, which is not easy to do with a pedal. Also, There's >usually lots of time to reach over and tweak the knob once you get a good loop >going. Yeah, but a quick "tweak" leaves a "step" in the loop afterwards. It should be possible to get used to a feedback pedal. I use a P+G fader, operated by foot. Its position is well defined and visible and I can operate it really slow while playing. (And it brings me some fame as the one that plays bare foot ;-) ) >The speed at which you move the feedback knob will effect the sound that >>occcurs in the loop afterwards, but I'm not sure exactly how. Any Info on >that >from anyone? Just imagine that you are *mixing* the sound you hear from the running loop with the one you are playing into the new loop you will hear next time around, beeing that the feedback knob is the volume for the running loop. So a quick move of the feedback will come back as quick fade from then on. Is that understandable? I find it very hard to explain those things. >One fun structure to work with. Create a loop, solo on it for a while until you >hear some thing you like, then turn on overdub and store it. Then solo >some more >until you create something else you like, then store that. When it get too >full, >you can either 1) push the undo button several times until you get it down to >size again (which removes the most recent loops.) Or 2) drop the feed back >level >(which fades out the earliest loops or 3) create a new loop and then jump back >and forth between the two. Thats it! Some people do not understand this after a year and several demonstrations of mine! (do I confuse them or dont they have the necessary neurone connections ready?) :-( >That's all I can think of for awhile. Happy looping Hoopy lapping Matthias Subject: Re: Memory upgrades Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 09:06:58 -0000 From: Tom Attix* To: >There are some places that charge more but offer much higher quality and >reliability. Whatever is more important to you. I'd get the cheap stuff >myself. I can personally recommend the Chip Merchants, I've done a fair amount of business with them. Their prices are low, they have a money-back policy and I've never heard of anyone getting defective product from them. They have a web site (www.thechipmerchants.com, I believe). Have fun plexing. -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:43:20 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hyperprism >>I've been toying with the idea of setting up a mac IIci with >hyperprism to >do >>looping and midi controlled spacial effects. I might put a >samplecell card >in >>it also. anyone done this? > >- Torn has. The results (in his hands, anyway) are all over his latest; "What >Means Solid, Traveler?" >we also used this technique a bit on my record... it's fun and the results >can be utterly unworldly. >have fun! >Robby Aceto I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs and contains all kinds of effects. Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a looper, the way we like it? Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? Matthias Subject: Re: hyperprism Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 10:42:10 -0000 From: Tom Attix* To: >I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs >and contains all kinds of effects. >Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a >looper, the way we like it? >Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? > >Matthias I looked them up on the web, they're actually out of San Francisco. I inquired about the possibility of using Hyperprism for real time effects and without a sound card (AudioMedia, was the example, I think), it's not possible. Apparently, the Mac sound manager causes a 60ms delay between input and playback. With a card, it looks like it would make a really cool effector. -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:52:08 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: hyperprism >>>I've been toying with the idea of setting up a mac IIci with >hyperprism to >>do >>>looping and midi controlled spacial effects. I might put a >samplecell card >>in >>>it also. anyone done this? >> >>- Torn has. The results (in his hands, anyway) are all over his latest; "What >>Means Solid, Traveler?" >>we also used this technique a bit on my record... it's fun and the results >>can be utterly unworldly. >>have fun! >>Robby Aceto > >I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs >and contains all kinds of effects. >Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a >looper, the way we like it? >Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? > I don't think it's french, ARboretum's address is in San Francisco. There are several different versions, a 68000 version that runs as a stand alone on mac's with Digidesign audio boards, a TDM version is a plug-in for Digidesign's Pro-Tools system, and a PPC version that runs on Powermacs with no additional hardware. I've only used the PPC version, and I really like it a lot, though I would think it works better as a post-recording processor than as a live instrument. I think it's the coolest piece of audio-sickening software since TurboSynth, and that is high praise. Basically, it offers a fairly standard set of effects (Delays, pitch and time shifting, reverb, ring modulation, etc) with a very non-standard interface, a blue window on the computer screen with different parameters of the x and y axis. For example, in the pitch and time changer, pitch is on the y axis, and playback speed is on the x axis. By drawing lines in the window, you set the parameters, and these paths can be saved, though not edited. in the 68000 and TDM versions, the parameters can also be controlled by external MIDI controllers, but that is not available on the PPC version, and I doubt that it will be since the PPC version costs about 1/2 the 68000 price, and 1/3 the TDM price. There's a demo at www.arboretum.com, which sold me on the software, and the PPC version is $279, which is pretty cheap for such a cool tool. And I'm not affiliated Arboretum in any way, if this sounds too much like a sales plug. BTW, hyperprism was named after an Edgar Varese piece, which should give you an idea of where the designers are at philosophically. BTW2: I'm new to this list, and loving it. I'm a bassist and looper from way back, and currently I'm using a JamMan and lxp-5 for live looping, and a PPC/Deck/Audiomedia2 setup for serious mangling. later, dt Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:05:15 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Memory upgrades Kim Thank you very much for the info about RAM. I feel confident that I'll be off and running soon now that I know more about what to get. If I can ever return the favor let me know. In case you don't remember, we met a few NAMMs ago (and I've emailed you previously about EDP issues). I work for a certain guitar pickup company out in Santa Barbara, California. Anyway, thanks again! Ted Killian Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:24:07 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers I was just thinking (i know, its a bad habit) since what is being reccommended here for looping is a full range amp system with a flat response how about a keyboard amp? This way you could make loops with guitar and bass (or even keyboard, heaven forbid). There are plenty of mono kbd amps out there but i dont like the prospect of having to use (read: lug around) two amps. For this reason a stereo amp is key. Does anyone make a stereo keyboard combo with at least 10" cones? Clark From: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Latin, and roots To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:49:09 -0700 (PDT) > Yea, I saw Brooke play w/ S/F. He did a solo beforehand. I was very > impressed by his performance. I was not impressed with S/F. Fripp > was, at least that night, more a technician than a musician. I found > Brook to be much more musical. Also, the mix was terrible. Might have > sounded good to those at stage left with their beaucoup $$$ recording > gear; but in the paying seats, it *bit*. > > Because of this experience, I have refrained from going to recent KC concerts. That's too bad because you missed out on the talents of Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn, et. al. I've heard them do some interesting group improv together, somethings incorporating looping devices into the process ("No Warning", "Industry", "When You Stop Continue (well, something like that)", etc.). At the very least, the formally-untrained-yet-creative Belew provides an interesing contrast. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:54:25 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: BIOS: Last minute info! Folks -- The master list is nearly assembled. I will probably transmit the completed list to Kim (and to this list) at some point tomorrow afternoon. There is still time to get a bio in if you haven't already done so. These are the last names of people who have entries in the list: helm, matthias, rockwell, henry, mccabe, rosser, hickey, michael, stafford, chovit, howarth, morriss, stafford, hyams, murrell, stagner, killian, orton,lafosse, madson, peters, durant, poplawski, flint, malhomme, poppen. If you sent a bio but don't see your name here, please send me a duplicate of the info and feel free to dock me a week's pay. It'll be here soon, folks. Thanks again. --Andre Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 15:20:03 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points At 02:28 PM 9/29/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hello again loopists: > > >*LOOPERS DELIGHT PROFILE FORM* > >(Fill in the information below and return it to altruist@shoko.calarts.edu >for inclusion on the Looper's Delight Web Site.) > >NAME Joe Cavaleri >AGE 44 >ADDRESS Simi Valley California Republic >PHONE (805) 526-7141 >E-MAIL cavaleri@simi-valley.ate.slb.com >URL N/A > >PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Guitar,Volume Pedal,JamMan,Vortex,Quadraverb,Mixer. >INFLUENCES 1960's AM Radio - This ranges from early rock & roll through motown ect., Im's sure, on at least a subliminal level, TV and movie music such as Carl Stalling,Bernard Herman, and many others. The minimalist movment - Steve Riech, Phillip Glass,ect. Guitar specific: The music of the Doors, King Crimson-Robert Frip, Alan Holdsworth, Bill Frisell,and of course Mr. Torn. Many others!! >MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Hard to tell. Ambient? Experimental? -- No Age? >ENSEMBLES None at this time >AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None commercially available >CONTACT INFORMATION Same as above >PERSONAL STATEMENT Hi all. First off I would like to thank all the people involved in giving this segment of the musical community the opportunity to participate in such a project. It should be a very interesting experience. I have been playing guitar for a little over 20yrs. I kind of started late but what the heck! In that time I've had the good fortune to play in several different styles of music. Everything from a wedding type band, a college jazz band, to playing with a Polynesian band.(complete with coconut klad Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 15:48:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points At 02:28 PM 9/29/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hello again loopists: Andre sorry about the multiple profoles - I'll get this right yet. > > >*LOOPERS DELIGHT PROFILE FORM* > >(Fill in the information below and return it to altruist@shoko.calarts.edu >for inclusion on the Looper's Delight Web Site.) > >NAME Joe Cavaleri >AGE 44 >ADDRESS Simi Valley California Republic >PHONE (805) 526-7141 >E-MAIL cavaleri@simi-valley.ate.slb.com >URL N/A > >PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Guitar,Volume Pedal,JamMan,Vortex,Quadraverb,Mixer. >INFLUENCES 1960's AM Radio - This ranges from early rock & roll through motown ect., Im's sure, on at least a subliminal level, TV and movie music such as Carl Stalling,Bernard Herman, and many others. The minimalist movment - Steve Riech, Phillip Glass,ect. Guitar specific: The music of the Doors, King Crimson-Robert Frip, Alan Holdsworth, Bill Frisell,and of course Mr. Torn. Many others!! >MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Hard to tell. Ambient? Experimental? -- No Age? >ENSEMBLES None at this time >AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None commercially available >CONTACT INFORMATION Same as above >PERSONAL STATEMENT Hi all. First off I would like to thank all the people involved in giving this segment of the musical community the opportunity to participate in such a project. It should be a very interesting experience. I have been playing guitar for a little over 20yrs. I kind of started late but what the heck! In that time I've had the good fortune to play in several different styles of music. Everything from a wedding type band, a college jazz band, to playing with a Polynesian band.(complete with coconut clad dancers!!) I am also attempting to become more politically aware. As Daniel Webster said. Good intentions will be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say the the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:24 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Re: Memory upgrades >Kim > >Thank you very much for the info about RAM. I feel confident that I'll be off >and running soon now that I know more about what to get. > >If I can ever return the favor let me know. Do I hear the sound of custom wound pickups in the air? Just kidding :-) >In case you don't remember, we met a few NAMMs ago (and I've emailed you >previously about EDP issues). I work for a certain guitar pickup company out >in Santa Barbara, California. > >Anyway, thanks again! > >Ted Killian Yep, I recall. I'm always a bit amazed at just how many people I manage to remember from those shows. I usually spent those days in some combination of sensory-overload/hangover/general-trade-show-stupor. I'll probably get down to good old anaheim this year. I know its a bit early, but is anyone else planning to do NAMM? Maybe we can plan some kind of mini looper gathering. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:27 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: hyperprism Dave Trenkel wrote: >There's a demo at www.arboretum.com, which sold me on the software, and the >PPC version is $279, which is pretty cheap for such a cool tool. And I'm >not affiliated Arboretum in any way, if this sounds too much like a sales >plug. > >BTW, hyperprism was named after an Edgar Varese piece, which should give >you an idea of where the designers are at philosophically. > >BTW2: I'm new to this list, and loving it. I'm a bassist and looper from >way back, and currently I'm using a JamMan and lxp-5 for live looping, and >a PPC/Deck/Audiomedia2 setup for serious mangling. > >later, >dt I'm really interested in doing more computer/studio based loop music, but I must confess I don't really know much about the best ways to get started. For the past few years I've been increasingly listening to various flavors of techno/house/dance, urban hip-hop/rap, dub, industrial, etc., and I really want to get my hands into it and do it myself. What can you folks recommend as a good, reasonably affordable set up? I've got a powermac, studio vision, and max. What else might I need? I guess some other questions that come to mind are, should I consider getting a sampler? If so are there good older ones I might find used? I'd like to be able to use loops I make on the mac in a live setting so I can create echoplex loops along with them. What's the best way to do this? All the sound cd-roms seem to have such a wealth of great stuff on them. Is it easy to use loops and samples from these things in the computer? anyway, I've been enjoying the hyperprism discussion and would like to hear more about ways people use their computers for looping. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:29 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: archiving Matthias says: >I did some work yesterday. Within 3 hours I compiled the following files: > >Ways and philosophies (is it an instrument?) >FeedBack keeps the loop alive >Rhythmical creativity >using several loopers >allways new experiences >looper in the 'puter > Thanks Matthias, this is great! I'll try to get the stuff up on the web this weekend. Anybody else want to help Matthias compile/maintain stuff? Having a human filter it all makes it quite a nice read actually! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:32 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Latin, and roots >AH! Sometimes, these "off-topic" subjects are just exhilarating! >A little Latin lessons is always good and fun (well probabaly the only >time it was any fun for me). Well, thanks to Dan, we now have the correct plural forms of a few looping favorites! So from now on, I want you all to use: Echoplex/Echoplecis Vortex/Vortices (did I get that right this time?) >By the way, I got an idea: I was listening to an old piece of music wich >is " marche pour la ceremeonie des turcs" from Jean Baptiste Lully (it is >a late XVIIth century composer who was the "maitre d'ouuvre" of all the >french music under the reign of Louis XIV). This piece is a long >orchestrated phrase that repeat itself, and grow in intensity, even though >the player don't play really louder. That could be somekind of an ancestor >to repetitive, or minimalistic music that lead to specific looping process >we use quite daily. What do you al think starting a whole thing about the >roots of looping? > Repeated phrases, with rising and falling intensity, have been a part of music for a long, long time I think. Its in music from all over the world, in all different cultures. If anything, a bit less in European Classical music, but its certainly present there too. I may even hazzard that this sort of repetition is an important part of making something "musical." I know I often find myself losing interest in music that keeps going on to something new with out ever repeating anything, while music that does repeat on various levels keeps me involved. Seems to happen in experimental/academic music where the composer is trying to explore some new idea while apparently forgetting some of the old ones. (oddly enough, I enjoy creating music like that; I should heed my own advice I think!) Technology gives us new instruments that make repetition easier. It also lets us approach this concept in new ways that were never there before. This is what the various looping tools we discuss are all about, and what the attraction is. I think the question still remains from a few weeks ago. How did the technology driven approach get started? Who were the first ones to make tape loops? It seems there were quite a few people doing this by the mid to late sixties, but where did they get it from? I've heard that the first tape delays were done in radio stations, but I don't know who or when. And who were the early ones applying it to music? For that matter, did it really start with tape? Was there anything before that? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From: Jon Morris Subject: Re: Latin, and roots To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:15:41 -0500 (CDT) > > I think the question still remains from a few weeks ago. How did the > technology driven approach get started? Who were the first ones to make > tape loops? It seems there were quite a few people doing this by the mid to > late sixties, but where did they get it from? I've heard that the first > tape delays were done in radio stations, but I don't know who or when. And > who were the early ones applying it to music? For that matter, did it > really start with tape? Was there anything before that? I beleive that before tape looping, there were some radio engineers who would scratch records to make them skip on purpose, thus creating loops, and musique concrete was born. Also, they used the wind-off groove at the end of a record side to repeat things indefinitely. I'm no expert regarding this kind of stuff, but I bet that if you search for info on Musique Concrete, you'll find some names of the first people to compose with these kinds of materials. -Jon Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:07:34 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: NAMM Kim wrote: > I know its a bit early, but is anyone else planning to do > NAMM? Maybe we can plan some kind of mini looper gathering. Well, being the "art" guy that designs all of the graphics for my employer (and anything else of a visual nature, including the NAMM booth), you can pretty safely bet that I'll be there for at least 2 or 3 days (before and durring the show). I'd be certainly up for any gathering of loopmeisters that develops. And... > Do I hear the sound of custom wound pickups in the air? > Just kidding :-) No need to "kid" necessarily. I can't promise anything at the moment. But, if you have PU needs lets talk about them (probably in another forum would be better though), and we'll see what can be done. See you at NAMM. Ted Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:15:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points hey Joe ... how do you like the Vortex ... I've been using the Jamman with an lxp15 and was wondering of the added dimensions of the Vortex Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 13:12:12 -0400 From: Jonathan Brainin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Latin, and roots Kim Flint wrote: > > >AH! Sometimes, these "off-topic" subjects are just exhilarating! > >A little Latin lessons is always good and fun (well probabaly the only > >time it was any fun for me). > > Well, thanks to Dan, we now have the correct plural forms of a few looping > favorites! So from now on, I want you all to use: > > Echoplex/Echoplecis > Vortex/Vortices OK, but what DO you call a pair of JamMam? JamMen??? Jonathan Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Details, details Regarding the last post: -- If you're scratching your head wondering what "the big one" is, try the "view attachments" command on your mailreader. (Perhaps some kind sould out there can re-post the index to the list in a manner not requiring an attachment command.) -- If there are informational errors in your entry on the list, please let Kim and me know so that we can make the necessary corrections. Hope you find the info interesting... --Andre