Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 01:23:36 -0400 (EDT) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. Chris Chovit wrote: > PLus, the >echoplex can be controlled via MIDI, whereas the JamMan is limited in its >MIDI implementation: you can only sync it to a MIDI beat clock. Now that >memory prices have come down, I feel that you get more for you dollar with >the Echoplex: > >Jam Man w/ 32 sec will cost you ~$450 >Echoplex w/ 108 sec will cost you ~$600 Chris , where did you get your 108 sec 'Plex ? The best price I've heard lately is $575 for 12 sec model incl. footswitch. Also Ram prices have risen a bit lately and 4Mb chips for the 'Plex are $43 from Chip Merchants. They have had the lowest prices I've seen. So that would be $172 more to fully load it at 198 sec. Also, although the MIDI implementation for the JamMan is limited and I'd bet not as extensive as the 'Plexs' , you can do a bit more than just sync to a MIDI clock. There are 20 program change messages you can send to cover things such as tap, layer,mute, fading loops , cueing loops,etc. I really envy you guys with the Echoplexes as it will probably be a while before I can afford one and I'm really lusting for one. Matthias was the book you mentioned by Peter Michael Hamel called " Through Music to the Self " ? A couple of other books worth mentioning are two by Joachim- Ernst Berendt called " Nada Brahma- The World is Sound " and "The Third Ear" , and one by R. Murray Schafer called " The Soundscape - Our Sonic Environment and the Tuning of the World ". ( I wonder if Fripp coined his recent loops from this title?). Some of these get a little esoteric and/or metaphysical. One thing I've noticed about loops are their meditational or trance inducing qualities. And speaking of trance inducing has anyone checked out the recent release by Michael Brook and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan called " Night Song " ? Loops and vocals with tablas and other stuff. Nice. Loop on Ed Drake Date: 10 Oct 96 02:32:13 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: hum cancelling I'm having continuous problems with humming. With my setup slowly getting more elaborate and containing more devices and cables, it's getting worse, and I'm already at the point where the humming is so bad I can't do any recordings at home which are good enough for publication. I would love to get one of these new 8-track disc recording machines, and make my own CD-ready recordings, but as long as there is audible humming no matter what I do, this wouldn't be worth it. Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up a professional studio in my room. -Michael Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:13:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: The hidden parts I do think that music like language has an interesting part of its content in the "non-said", a fonction of implicit. Thins was too me a major lack in the structuralist theory, to forget this part of the language. I of course can say exactly the same word with the same tone to 2 different people and convey 2 different meanings. By the same way if you change a sentence A, it changes obviuosly the sense of the B one following. Implicit require an agreement, even implicit (!) between the , at least, 2 persons concerned. Maybe we are tempted to forget that music has got this implicit part too, and that we should not demonstrate every "word". It require a certain amount of trust for in the listener (whoops). It is clear that J.S. Bach was master of this. It is very clear too in the cello sonatas where you can actually hear sometimes 2, 3 voices playing and developpinf their counter point although the lines are almost monophonic all the time. You could spend anyway time to write down in extenso each voice, and you would write down a lot more than what it's written in the score. So, most of the music is not said, "implicit", so and you can perfectly "hear"it. That require certainly, I guess a level of work that is far beyond the common. Most of people I know (including me, of course) are just ar best mastering the obvious. Olivier Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:09 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. >Chris Chovit wrote: > >> PLus, the >>echoplex can be controlled via MIDI, whereas the JamMan is limited in its >>MIDI implementation: you can only sync it to a MIDI beat clock. Now that >>memory prices have come down, I feel that you get more for you dollar with >>the Echoplex: >> >>Jam Man w/ 32 sec will cost you ~$450 >>Echoplex w/ 108 sec will cost you ~$600 > > Chris , where did you get your 108 sec 'Plex ? The best price I've heard >lately is $575 for 12 sec model incl. footswitch. Also Ram prices have >risen a bit lately and 4Mb chips for the 'Plex are $43 from Chip Merchants. >They have had the lowest prices I've seen. So that would be $172 more to >fully load it at 198 sec. I'm pretty sure I saw 4meggers for $28 just a week ago. You can probably bargain people down if you try. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Beginner questions >The JamMan has stereo ins and outs (ie. it will preserve the stereo signal) >but only loops in mono. THe echoplex has only mono in and out The echoplex has syncing abilities so you can easily set up two of them for stereo. Or more than two for multi-track looping. Depends on your gear budget of course... >>Since I've hardly begun to get into this looping business, >>the first thing I was envisioning myself doing was building up a 4 >>or more layer loop (bass, rhythm, percussive sounds, synth), save that >>off, solo over it for a while, start and build up another 4 layer loop, >>save that, and maybe do this a few more times, then be able to >>switch between the already constructed, layered loops as sections >>of the song. I assume either the JamMan or Echoplex could do this? > >Yes, you can do this with both. You can have up to 9 loops in the echoplex. Their lengths can independent of each other, which I don't think is true of the jamman. You can also copy audio or the time base from one to another. You can switch to any loop you like, rather than just cycling through them, and you can trigger them with midi like a sampler. It works quite well for your idea of creating compositions with different loops for each section, and switching between them at will. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Amplification >On 9 Oct 1996, Teed Rockwell wrote: > >> Paolo, >> >> I've tried both of your solutions. The built in line out from my amp sounds >> better than no amp at all, but not as good as the sound of the amp itself. I >> record by miking my big amp, and wish I had a small amp that had the >>same great >> tone. Any suggestions? >> > >Have you tried a Marshall or Kolbe speaker load box? These devices >put a big reactive load on the amp, enough to preclude the need for a >speaker (so they're big boxes with heat sinks, not some little teeny >thing like the Red Box), and they make the power tubes behave they way >guitarists expect. You can also use them to just drag the volume down >to reasonable levels for your regular speakers. I've heard the >Marshall Power Brake and it's quite impressive. I've heard good things about the THD hotplate and Holdworth's Harness. I've heard negative impressions of the Marshall. Is this the same one they've had for a while? I'll probably end up using some such device to feed my loops, now that I'm irrevocably becoming a tube amp geek. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:05 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: hum cancelling >I'm having continuous problems with humming. With my setup slowly getting >more elaborate and containing more devices and cables, it's getting worse, >and I'm already at the point where the humming is so bad I can't do any >recordings at home which are good enough for publication. I would love to >get one of these new 8-track disc recording machines, and make my own >CD-ready recordings, but as long as there is audible humming no matter what >I do, this wouldn't be worth it. > >Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables >doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of >devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old >Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, >guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any >disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up >a professional studio in my room. > >-Michael It's possible to fix these problems, some ideas off the top of my head: 1. Make sure you have isolation washers on all your rack gear so you don't get ground loops through the rack. 2. Keep all the audio cables as seperate from the power cables as possible. If they must cross, make sure they are perpindicular. 3. Make sure all your audio cables are good quality and have a shield. Use balance cables when you can. 4. Computers, and especially monitors, are likely to cause hum, try to keep some distance between them. 5. keep cables as short as possible. 6. Try to create a star ground, where you start from a single outlet and create a star of power/ground lines coming out. 7. DON'T PULL THE GROUND PINS!!!! People often try to solve hum problems by lifting the grounds. This is dangerous, don't do it! You can get shocked this way. 8. If you still have a problem, try taking things out of your system one at a time to isolate the source of the hum. If you find it, try moving it elsewhere to seperate it from the other stuff. 9. Don't use flourescent lights or dimmer switches. hope this helps, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:01 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: delay tricks >I use a counting method with a guitar (could be any instrument, though) & >delay, which may be of interest, so I will try to communicate it here: > >I hope this wasn't too confusing.....(or too anal)! > >- chris > Not to me, I thought it was really interesting. I like your approach of representing a musical idea as a particular symbolic/algorithmic approach, extending the algorithm in obvious ways, and reapplying that to the musical idea. Allows you to find new things that would have been missed in praxis. I've started doing similar things with polyrhythms lately. I think of a particular beat division I want to work with (fives lately) and another beat division to cross it with (five over two, say). I'm not good enough rhythmically to play something like 5:2 right off the bat, so I carefully figure out all the subdivisions and the locations of each strike. Then I practice it slowly and build the tempo as I get the feel. Great way to pass time in boring meetings and irritate co-workers! I think I might try combining this with your ideas to make some more complex polyrhythmic loops! With the echoplex its pretty easy to get a couple of them synced together in cross rhythms, using midi clock and different 8ths/beat settings. there are also ways to do it with BrotherSync. I assume you've tried this sort of thing? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:55:42 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Beginner questions >The JamMan has stereo ins and outs (ie. it will preserve the stereo signal) >but only loops in mono. Does this mean that it will loop the stereo signal as one dual signal but it cant loop one side differently than the other? Is the 32 second maximum only for a true mono signal? In other words, is the max loop time cut in half (to 16 seconds) if you're using a stereo signal? Clark Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:07:09 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hum cancelling Theres a little $50 box by ebtech which claims to eliminate all hum. It is stereo too. I think i saw it in either the Musicians Friend or AMS catalog. Clark From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Beginner questions Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:12:05 -0400 Rob Martino wrote: > I understand the JamMan can only process > one of it's stereo inputs. The JamMan Processes BOTH sides of the stereo input but sums them into the loop/delay. What you get is real time stereo "through" and summed delay/loop. Sometimes this can be a nice effect, but I have to admit, I would prefer to have the ability to loop in stereo where each channel could be separately controlled. Steve Murrell smurrell@ford.com Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:13 -0400 From: Rob Martino To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Beginner questions Chris Chovit wrote: > > Rob Martino wrote: > > >So to start off, I wanted to get some basic ideas about the type > >of equiment/cable configuration I would want to start with. > >Playing Champman Stick, I have at least three outputs (bass, melody, > >triggered synth), yet I understand the JamMan can only process > >one of it's stereo inputs. So would the easiest thing to do be > >simply having a small mixer to mix down from three or more to > >one? Does the Echoplex allow multiple inputs? > > I reccommend using a mixer. If you run looping device off the effect SEND, > then you can send only the signals you want to loop. Also, if you run the > output of the looping device back into a mixer input channel, you can send > that signal to other effects, through additional SENDS. Can you recommend a simple one or two space rack mixer that would be suitable for this? Is it a situation where I would want certain effects (like reverb) to be after the looping device, to prevent the overdubs from sounding to muddy? Next question: will the Echoplex let you create polyrythmic loops, so that you could do one loop in 4/4, and another in 3/4 on top of it so that you'd have a scontinual shifting sort of effect going on? Thanks everyone for the helpful info. Rob Martino Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:50:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hum cancelling Wow, it's hard to add anything to what Kim said! He hit on just about all the major points for beating hum. I'll add one he overlooked, and emphasize a few I think are particularly important... First, you didn't say what sort of instrument/pickups you use. A guitar with single coil pickups? Start right there, and go to stacked humbuckers. They don't sound as good as real single coils, but they're quiet. This was one of the first changes I made when I started with looping. I got a set of Carvin stacked humbuckers for my Strat and they worked wonders. While you're at it, make sure your guitar is WELL shielded and uses high-quality shielded wire internally. Lots of guitars are noisy even with humbuckers. I'll repeat Kims admonition to use high-quality shielded cable and plugs. Use XLR balanced connectors whenever possible... their whole purpose is hum rejection, and they do it very well. And avoid flourescent lights whenever possible. And computer monitors. Cross audio cables perpendicular to power lines. Make sure your rack stuff isn't ground-looping through the rack or physical contact. This reminds me of a story... a few years ago, I saw Steve Tibbetts (a very subtle looper in his own right) on tour. Something in his electric guitar system hummed severely, which pretty much confined him to acoustic guitar (looping hum SUCKS). At one point during the concert, he made a comment about a "ghost in the machine". Then, about 30 seconds into the next song, one of the PA speakers tipped forward and fell off the stage, with a resounding thud. Luckily, no one was hurt. Much to Steve Tibbetts and Marc Andersen's credit, they kept on playing without breaking stride. :} Ghost in the machine indeed! -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:25:13 -0400 From: Rob Martino To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Beginner questions Rob Martino wrote: > Can you recommend a simple one or two space rack mixer that would be suitable > for this? Is it a situation where I would want certain effects (like reverb) > to be after the looping device, to prevent the overdubs from sounding to > muddy? In response to myself, Actually I was thinking, maybe I could get away with using my keyboard amp. My typical Sunday morning at church setup is have my processed guitar and synth running to the amp inputs, with more gain on the guitar to match the synth volume. My amp (Barbetta Sona 32c) has an effects send and return (very simple, no way to change send level). But could I just have this go to the Echoplex, and have it's output go to the amp return, making sure the signal from the Echoplex matches the volume of the instruments going into the amp? Maybe not as flexible as having a mixer in my rack, but good enough for now if I can get away with it... Rob Martino Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:45:29 -0400 From: Rob Martino To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Echoplex heating up? I noticed on Harmony Central effects reviews that a user had a thermal problem with the Echoplex containing a full 16MB of memory, so that some of the controls would not respond. Has anyone had this problem, and also heard of possible solutions? Rob Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:59:34 -0400 (EDT) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points > Joe ... you mention the Guitar Center having the vortex for 150 >... who are they and how do I get in touch with them Paul Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:10:12 -0400 (EDT) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: hum cancelling >>I'm having continuous problems with humming. With my setup slowly getting >>more elaborate and containing more devices and cables, it's getting worse, >>and I'm already at the point where the humming is so bad I can't do any >>recordings at home which are good enough for publication. I would love to >>get one of these new 8-track disc recording machines, and make my own >>CD-ready recordings, but as long as there is audible humming no matter what >>I do, this wouldn't be worth it. >> >>Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables >>doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of >>devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old >>Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, >>guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any >>disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up >>a professional studio in my room. >> >>-Michael > I have found that alot of hum can be cause by AC strips and/or the particular placement of wall-warts in relation to other wall warts or AC strips. Move things around and see how the hum changes. I don't think it is cabling Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:50:47 -0400 From: Rob Martino To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hum cancelling Paul Poplawski, Phd wrote: > >>Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables > >>doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of > >>devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old > >>Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, > >>guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any > >>disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up > >>a professional studio in my room. > >> > >>-Michael > > > > I have found that alot of hum can be cause by AC strips and/or the > particular placement of wall-warts in relation to other wall warts or AC > strips. Move things around and see how the hum changes. I don't think it > is cabling Maybe you could get one of those line conditioners like Furman or ETA which does EMI/RFI interference filtering? I have a Furman PL-8 which can be bought for around $100, there might be others for a little less. This won't help for noisy guitar pickups though. Rob Martino Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:55:35 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points I think I've found their web site. Try http://www.radiox.net/sponsors/gtrcenter/gtrcenter.html Let me know if this works, if not I'll get their phone # to you Good luck joe At 11:59 AM 10/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >> Joe ... you mention the Guitar Center having the vortex for 150 >>... who are they and how do I get in touch with them > >Paul > > > > > > Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:09:18 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. > Chris , where did you get your 108 sec 'Plex ? The best price I've heard >lately is $575 for 12 sec model incl. footswitch. Also Ram prices have >risen a bit lately and 4Mb chips for the 'Plex are $43 from Chip Merchants. >They have had the lowest prices I've seen. So that would be $172 more to >fully load it at 198 sec. I got my 'plex thru Manny's music for $479 (not including the foot pedal -- that was $70 or $80 more). I based my memory price on Kim's $30 / 4 MB quote. --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:53 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Rob Martino asked: >Is it a situation where I would want certain effects (like reverb) >to be after the looping device, to prevent the overdubs from sounding to >muddy? There are two good reasons to place the reverb after the loop: 1. You want the reverb in stereo and you probably do not want to spend a second looping device just for this (Echoplex can be stereo synced) 2. While building the loop you maybe do not know what clima will come up, so it is very interesting to be able to change the character of the ambience, say the reverb time, while the loop is running. >Next question: will the Echoplex let you create polyrythmic loops, so >that you could do one loop in 4/4, and another in 3/4 on top of it so that >you'd have a scontinual shifting sort of effect going on? So far just with two synced Echopleci Matthias Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Amplification >now that I'm irrevocably becoming a tube amp geek. > >kim you too my son ? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:58 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hum cancelling >Theres a little $50 box by ebtech which claims to eliminate >all hum. It is stereo too. I think i saw it in either the >Musicians Friend or AMS catalog. Jump off a bridge and you do not feel your teeth hurt any more You do not need a "drug" to paint over your hum... Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:31 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. Ed knows the book: >Matthias was the book you mentioned by Peter Michael Hamel called " Through >Music to the Self " ? > Thats it, thank you! > Michael Brook and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan called " Night >Song " ? Loops and vocals with tablas and other stuff. Nice. What a pity I have no access to records down here. Nusrat fascinates me for a long time. I have seen him once with his traditional band in Basel, half the public beeing his people (Pakistani?). I loved it and suddenly could not stand it any more and had to leave. Serious stuff! Matthias Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: The hidden parts Olivier: >I do think that music like language has an interesting part of its content >in the "non-said", a fonction of implicit. ... >You could spend anyway time to write down in extenso each voice, and you >would write down a lot more than what it's written in the score. So, most >of the music is not said, "implicit", so and you can perfectly "hear"it. > >That require certainly, I guess a level of work that is far beyond the >common. Most of people I know (including me, of course) are just ar best >mastering the obvious. So is it just beyond us? To do it perfectly consciously maybe. I often miss a note in a guitar line and then feel its not really missing, maybe even a charmy whole. What can we say in respect to "hidden loops"? -Some sound goes on although it faded out. We got so used to it that its "impossible" to fade it away. -Some sound maybe it not necessary to loop, because to suggest it once makes it stay. -Disconnected notes in a loop activate the listener to find "bridge notes" to smoth it out. Depending on context, different people find the same or different notes. So you can conform or shock by the next note you introduce to the loop. -...? Out of the moment Matthias Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:22:03 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points >We had a huge vortex thread a while back that I guess you guys missed. I'm >in the process of putting old list postings up in an archive section of the >website, so you can see it all soon. > >kim I compiled 6 subjects, but not the one about Vortex, because I do not own one yet. I hope one of the Vortex users can offer the 20 minutes to do it and then maybe send soon to Joe Cavaleri and Ted Killian even before website. They will invite you for a beer. I used the following form: The stars help in that you can search for them if you want to run through the file quickly. Date and sender. The subject I left out because its usually one for the whole file. I only left the new and afirmative text and erased, citations, errors, off topics and jokes (I love them when they are fresh, only). Questions I left in only if they were necessary to understand the answers. Sometimes it is necessary to cite a sentence to give the sense to the text following, especially if the origin is not immediately above in the file. In other situations I just changed the text and replaced the "it" or "this" by the expression it was refering to. I hope this turns into something compact, readable and easy to search. Any suggestions to do it better? ...to do it? Thanks Matthias PS have an example: ***** Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:00:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner Actually, I'm a professional programmer, and I have a pretty good grasp of numeric analysis programming and how audio works. My usual environment is Unix, but I'm sure I could pick up Mac/Windows programming easily enough if I tried. Yeah, I'm seriously considering buying a new Power Mac just to work on this idea. What do y'all think? Would you be willing to use a personal computer for a looping device? Do you HAVE a computer capable of this sort of thing? All the necessary hardware is built into Power Macs and most modern PCs. The whole thing could be sold as software, or even given away. Let's think about this. What sort of features would we like to see? What about the user interface? ***** Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:37:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck >A protools plug in and a standalone would be my choice. Way too expensive. I've been thinking more along the lines of Deck or Logic Audio. The machines are getting fast enough that one doesn't necessarily need to drop $10k on ProTools hardware. If people balk at $900 for an Echoplex, do you think they're gonna drop $15k for a machine and ProTools?!? --- It should be able to work with the upcoming Korg audio card, 'cause the Mac audio inputs are only around 70 db s/n. --- I'd also like to write a virtual analogue synth (patchable) that would work with it. --- I wonder if cmusic could be bent to the task. My understanding is that you can now do realtime stuff with cmusic on the Mac. Since it's all algorithmic, and the sources are available, this could be a very good foundation. ***** Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:56:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck --- Mac. Screen. Panel of momentary and on/off footswitches and pedals (preferably with giant backlight LCD displays on each one that the software could program to say something meaningful). --- The system would show you the waveform of what you've played, like Deck or any other digital audio recording SW does, so you could see what you were doing. Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hum cancelling >7. DON'T PULL THE GROUND PINS!!!! People often try to solve hum problems >by lifting the grounds. This is dangerous, don't do it! You can get shocked >this way. Well, in whole Brasil you cannot find one ground pin, and this is a country where you do not use carpets but step bare foot on the ground, often wet. And I have not known of some one get killed because of 110V at home (often by open air stage structures, though!). But shocks we get every day, taking showers in good hotels... So in Germany, 230V is a bit more dangerous, but still... I have seen a lot of problems resolved by lifting the ground pins, especially with older equipment. Lately the equipment has some limited isolation between internal and safety ground which solves the problem. I guess Kim says that because the american legal system can charge him millions for saying what I just said... ;-) Nice collection of points, Kim! Matthias Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:31:24 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points In a message dated 96-10-10 13:00:06 EDT, you write: > Joe ... you mention the Guitar Center having the vortex for 150 >>>... who are they and how do I get in touch with them Last time I was there the GC in Hollywood had a few dozen in a stack for $149 each. I don't know what their relationship to mail order is, but their phone # is (213) 874-1060. Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics Sustain/Para Eq pedal? Thanks, Ken Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:42:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? >I noticed on Harmony Central effects reviews that a user had a thermal >problem with the Echoplex containing a full 16MB of memory, so that >some of the controls would not respond. Has anyone had this problem, >and also heard of possible solutions? > >Rob That was a problem on older units due to a minor circuit design error. (sorry!) Its real easy to fix. You basically just have to cut a pin on an IC and the echoplex works fine at much higher temperatures. Newer units should have the mod done already, although ya never know. If anyone wants to know which IC/pin to make the mod, let me know. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:33:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: roots (and dj's) >Aha! This is a lead. Any Musique Concrete experts hanging about? I thought >there may have been people who experimented with records as a musical tool >before tape loops, but wasn't sure. Does anybody know more details about >that? I'd love to know who these people were and who inspired them. > Well, I'm no expert, but look into Pierre Henry and Pierre Schaefer as a start. Henry was doing some amazing things with tape in the 60's, and I believe some of Schaefer's early work was with wire recorders, imagine splicing that! >This brings up another branch in the looping family tree that hasn't been >touched on at all yet: dj's. Over the past twenty years or so the craft of >spinning records has been elevated into a musical art of its own. I've >heard some really stunning and creative music coming from guys with a >couple of turntables and a box of records. For the longest time I was just >completely baffled as to how they did this. I finally had the opportunity >to watch up close, and I was even more impressed, if still baffled. I >definitely did not come away thinking "Gee, I could do that." > I saw DJ Spooky, out of NYC, perform her in Oregon last weekend, a totally amazing show, honestly on the level of seeing Hendrix or Sun Ra. An absolutly virtuosic performance of real-time music-concrete. His slogan is "Gimme twoe records and I'll build you a universe", and he's not bragging. >Anyway, the dj-musician is really employing loops, using a different >technical approach than those of us using delays, real-time loopers, >samplers, and our computers. I'm sure some dj's employ these tools as well, >I don't know. I know Roland and Akai both make looping products aimed at >dj's, generally called phrase samplers. As you might guess, I'm fascinated >by this topic. I'd really like to know how dj's approach their music and do >their thing. And what the history is and where the influences came from. I >think some really interesting cross-pollination could happen as well. > Spooky seemed to be using some kinds of delay processors, and maybe a phrase sampler built into his dj coffin, along with 2 turntables and a CD player. As far as influences, the liner notes to his excellent "Songs of a Dead Dreamer" CD mention Mcluhan, Deleuze and Guatari, and Foucault. Not exactly you're usual suspects... Actually, after the DJ Spooky performance, I'm looking for dj's to collaborate with. Anybody know anyone in the NW? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:33:30 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: hyperprism >Thanks for all that expanation and corection. It will not run on my 840AV >then (grrr). I am using DECK, too. Are you on that list? Wana sell >Audiomedia2? > Nope, but if you look around, they're going for pretty cheap these days. I've heard of prices in the $550 range at various mail order. >but, back to the essence: Can you TAP delay time on Hyperprism ?? > Not the PPC version, AFAIK. Possibly by writing a MAX controller for the 68k version though. I see Hyperprism as more a post looping processing tool than a real time looper. For example, you can do effects that loop over several iterations of an audio loop. PS: Matthias, thanks for the thread about computer looping, I'll read it when I get time. I'm in the middle of repainting my studio AND shipping a CD-ROM by monday. Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:15:14 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Guitar Center Here, again, more info on Guitar Center. OK, so the title of the original posting was "Re: Walls of the Vortex"... Pat ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com California: Guitar Center El Cerrito 10300 San Pablo Ave. El Cerrito Ave, CA 94530 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (510) 559-1055 Manager: Sammy Moir Guitar Center Brea 606 South Brea Blvd. Brea, CA 92621 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (714) 672-0103 Manager: Mike Margolis Guitar Center Covina 1054 North Azusa Ave. Covina, CA 91722 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (818) 967-7911 Manager: Danny Thompson Guitar Center Fountain Valley 18361 Euclid Street Fountain Valley, CA 92708 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (714) 241-9140 Manager: Don Rodrigues Guitar Center Hollywood 7425 Sunset Blvd. Hollywood, CA 90046 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (213) 874-1060 Manager: George Lampos Guitar Center Pleasant Hill 2233 Contra Costa Blvd. Plesent Hill, CA 94523 Store Hours: M-F 11-8, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (510) 825-8880 Manager: Joe Mullinax Guitar Center South Bay 4525 Artesia Blvd. Lawndale, CA 90260 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (310) 542-9444 Manager: Brian Thoryk Guitar Center San Bernardino 720 South "E" Street San Bernardino, CA 92408 Store Hours: M-F 10-8, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (909) 383-3700 Manager: Tod Ericsson Guitar Center San Diego 6533 El Cajon Blvd. San Diego, CA 92115 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (619) 583-9751 Manager: Steve Harder Guitar Center San Francisco 1321 Mission Street San Francisco, CA 94103 Store Hours: M-F 11-8, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (415) 626-7655 Manager: Breck Diebel Guitar Center San Marcos 733 Center Dr.. San Marcos, CA 92069 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone:(619) 735-8050 Manager:Scott Black Guitar Center San Jose 3430 Stevens Creek Blvd. San Jose, CA 95117 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (408) 249-0455 Manager: Reed Williams Guitar Center Sherman Oaks 14760 Ventura Blvd. Sherman Oaks, CA 91403 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (818) 990-8332 Manager: Jeff Josephson Florida: Guitar Center Hallandale 1101 West Hallandale Beach Blvd. Hallandale, FL 33009 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (954) 456-7890 Manager: Ron Bicknell Guitar Center Miami 7736 North Kendall Dr. Miami, FL 33156 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (305) 271-2600 Manager: Dan Hansen Illinois: Guitar Center Central Chicago 3228 Clark Street Chicago, Ilinois 60657 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (312) 327-5687 Manager: Dave Lewark Guitar Center N. Chicago 2375 S. Arlington Heights Rd. Arlington Heights, IL 60005 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (847) 439-4600 Manager: Gary Rice Guitar Center S. Chicago 8250 South Cicero Burbank, IL 60459 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (708) 422-1400 Manager: Tony Buffalo Guitar Center Villa Park 298 West Roosevelt Road Villa Park, Ilinois 60181 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (630) 832-2800 Manager: Tony Buffalo Massachusetts: Guitar Center Boston 750 Commonwealth Ave. Boston, MA 02215 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (617) 738-5958 Manager: Peter Schuelzky Guitar Center Danvers 120 Andover Street Danvers, MA 01923 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (508) 777-1950 Manager:Freddy Gilfeather Michigan: Guitar Center Detroit 30530 Gratiot Ave. Detroit, MI 48066 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (810) 296-6161 Manager: Kenric Knecht Guitar Center Southfield 29555 Northwestern Hwy. Southfield, MI 48034 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (810) 354-8075 Manager: Rahn Wolf Minnesota: Guitar Center Twin Cities 2059 North Snelling Roseville, MN 55113 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (612) 631-9420 Manager: Jerry Grote Texas: Guitar Center Arlington 721 Ryan Plaza Drive Arlington, TX 76011 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (817) 277-3510 Manager: Tim Lovick Guitar Center Dallas 14080 Dallas Parkway Dallas, TX 75240 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (214) 960-0011 Manager: Randy Singleton Guitar Center Houston 7729 Westheimer Road Houston, TX 77063 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (713) 952-9070 Manager: Don Kelsey Guitar Center N. Houston 16745 North Freeway Houston, TX 77090 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (713) 537-9100 Manager: Jim Moon Date: 10 Oct 96 14:15:08 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Boomerang Boomerang question: 1. Who knows the address of the manufacturing company? We'd like to contact them because we might want to import them into Germany. 2. Who has got one and can tell me about it? For some reason, this list talks about Echoplex and Jamman, but almost never about other devices. Can the Boomerang be compared to the Echoplex? -Michael Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:26:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: TC Sustain and noise in general On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 KRosser414@aol.com wrote: > Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics > Sustain/Para Eq pedal? I don't think they make 'em any more, and they're hard to find. You might get lucky, though. I got mine a few years ago for $30, from a local shop that handles lots of vintage and used stuff (really good guy, incidentally. "Somewhere in Iowa Guitars" at 319-362-2526. Do give him a call if you're seeking or selling vintage stuff. He's a very honest and knowledgable dealer). He couldn't unload the thing because no one knew what it was. Considering that hissy, noisy, pumping old MXR and Boss compressors next to it were commanding vintage prices... If you need a guitar compressor and find one, snatch it up immediately! Clean, smooth compression, parametric eq, noise suppression and silent electronic footswitching in a bulletproof box. I believe David Torn uses one as well, for the celebrity angle. To make this relevant (it ties to the hum problem as well), ANY noise in a looping system is a problem! Besides hum, there are lots of useful devices that tend to generate or amplify noise. Compressors and distortion devices are especially guilty of this. And looping noise is irritating and distracting. Devices like the T.C. Sustainer are invaluable in our quest for clean, quiet effects chains. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net Date: 10 Oct 96 14:15:06 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: hum cancelling Thanks to Kim and everyone else for the "hum cancelling" tips. I'll see what I can do. Hum cancelling devices: I'll ask a friend who works in an electronics shop if he knows something about it. Problem is, I live in Germany and the devices you mentioned are probably not available/applicable here. Guitar picks are not the problem, there is hum without guitars as well. I guess I have to rewire everything ... Hey, it's great to participate in a mailing list which is so responding! Thanks again. BTW, got my Vortex today, thanks to all the people in this list who talked about it and turned me on to it. -M Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:45:12 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: TC Sustain and noise in general > Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics > Sustain/Para Eq pedal? I don;t think he has one now, but check with Analog Mike from time to time. He's got lots of vintage guitar effects listed on the web, available for purchase: http://users.aol.com/AnalogMike/stock.htm ALso, if you live in the LA area, there's always The Recycler: http://www.recycler.com --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other > I compiled 6 subjects, but not the one about Vortex, because I do not > own one yet. Too bad. Just got mine today and am suddenly very interested in this thread . > I hope one of the Vortex users can offer the 20 minutes to do it I'd do it but I've already deleted all the old messages. Hmpf! -M Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:32:54 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: delay tricks & Indian classical music >Not to me, I thought it was really interesting. I like your approach of >representing a musical idea as a particular symbolic/algorithmic approach, >extending the algorithm in obvious ways, and reapplying that to the musical >idea. Allows you to find new things that would have been missed in praxis. Well put! I never thought about it like that. It seems that the need to communicate can bring about this approach. >I've started doing similar things with polyrhythms lately. I think of a >particular beat division I want to work with (fives lately) and another >beat division to cross it with (five over two, say). I'm not good enough >rhythmically to play something like 5:2 right off the bat, so I carefully >figure out all the subdivisions and the locations of each strike. Then I >practice it slowly and build the tempo as I get the feel. Great way to pass >time in boring meetings and irritate co-workers! Here's a method I learned in tabla lessons, which helps me hear and "internalize" some of these polyrhythms: I'll use your example -- 5 : 2 -- 1. Use your hands to count the 5: Clap on the 1, then strike your fingers of one hand , (alternately), on the palm of your other hand to count the 2 through 5. ie. COUNT ACTION ----------- ------------ 1 clap 2 strike right pinky on left palm 3 strike right ring finger on left palm 4 strike right middle finger on left palm 5 strike right index finger on left palm repeat...etc. Do this slowly for a bit, at a steady pace, until you don't have to think about it. Now the other side of the polyrhythm will be done with your voice: Choose a repeating note/word sequence, with one sound per count (of the 5). For example, the traditional 5 count tabla note sequence goes: TA KAY TA KEE TA. So, start by speaking these notes at the same time as you count (with your fingers), ie. COUNT ACTION SPEAK ----------- ------------ ----------- 1 clap TA 2 strike right pinky on left palm KAY 3 strike right ring finger on left palm TA 4 strike right middle finger on left palm KEE 5 strike right index finger on left palm TA repeat....etc. Do this for a while until the finger actions and speaking seem fairly easy. Now, here's the trick: Just double the speed of your speaking, while keeping your fingers at a steady pace. So, now you have: COUNT ACTION SPEAK ----------- ------------ ----------- 1 clap TA * 1.5 KAY 2 strike right pinky on left palm TA 2.5 KEE 3 strike right ring finger on left palm TA 3.5 TA * 4 strike right middle finger on left palm KAY 4.5 TA 5 strike right index finger on left palm KEE 5.5 TA repeat...etc. Now, once you are comfortable with this, emphaisize, the first TA of each 5-note sequence (denoted with a *, in the above example). Emphasize it to the point where those are the only notes spoken aloud, ie. you are practically whispering the other notes. When you are comfortable with this, then slowly increase your speed -- as fast as you can go so that you "maintain control". And Voila! The relationship between your fingers and your spoken word is 5 : 2. Try doubling your spoken words again, to get the 5 : 4 relationship. Obviously, you have to start slow with these, but it really does help internalize them. For some reason it is easier for (my) brain to speak and beat one finger independently, than it is to beat two fingers independently. of course, another great way to get the feel for these, is to program them on a sequencer (or use the loopers!!!) and listen to them for extended periods (even in the background). >I think I might try combining this with your ideas to make some more >complex polyrhythmic loops! With the echoplex its pretty easy to get a >couple of them synced together in cross rhythms, using midi clock and >different 8ths/beat settings. there are also ways to do it with >BrotherSync. I assume you've tried this sort of thing? Yes, I've done this, but not by using different 8th/beat settings (I hadn't thought of that..). I have been tapping a "unit beat" length loop in one 'plex, then using the MULTIPLY function on additional 'plexis to make loops with various length relationships. Of course, with this method I have to perform it. Using your method, I could come up with polyrhythms that are too difficult to perform. - chris p.s. I will finally be re-integrating my 'plexis into my setup, after having them sit in Oberheim's customer service dept. for 3 months! --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:41:49 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: TC Sustain and noise in general In a message dated 96-10-10 15:14:42 EDT, you write: >> Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics >> Sustain/Para Eq pedal? > >I don't think they make 'em any more, and they're hard to find. You >might get lucky, though. I got mine a few years ago for $30, from a >local shop that handles lots of vintage and used stuff (really good >guy, incidentally. "Somewhere in Iowa Guitars" at 319-362-2526. Thanks for the tip - I called him and I'm on his "want" list. Any other tips? If anyone else out there sees a deal like this, let me know! I saw one at the Guitar Center in Hollywood recently for $100. I went back two days later to get it and it was gone - I still have bruises from kicking myself. It's true, they don't make these anymore. To what extent might it be possible to use this newsgroup as sort of a nationwide (or worldwide?) resource for finding some of those hard-to-find pieces of gear that are helpful to us? I go to used stores quite a bit, as I'm sure a lot of us do. Maybe if there was a short list of things to keep an eye out for, we could inform the group? Also, along the TC lines, has anyone had any experience with their Noise Supressor/Line Driver/Distortion pedal, also no longer made? Is it up to the same TC standards? >If you need a guitar compressor and find one, snatch it up >immediately! Clean, smooth compression, parametric eq, noise >suppression and silent electronic footswitching in a bulletproof box. >I believe David Torn uses one as well, for the celebrity angle. As does Bill Frisell. Ken R Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 17:58:21 CST From: "Todd Madson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other You can see the looping sampler instructions for Vortex on my web page: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Click on "[LOOP]" and you'll go right there. Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 10/10/96 4:34 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- > I compiled 6 subjects, but not the one about Vortex, because I do not > own one yet. Too bad. Just got mine today and am suddenly very interested in this thread . > I hope one of the Vortex users can offer the 20 minutes to do it I'd do it but I've already deleted all the old messages. Hmpf! -M Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 18:18:25 CST From: "Todd Madson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: TC Sustain and noise in general I've got a TC Electronics BLD (Booster Line Driver) pedal that I've had for several years. I guess I'd say that the pedal doesn't have what I'd term a raging distortion sound but more of a lighter type of disto tone. Not my favorite tone, but... The pedal also has a "boost mode" where I've used it as a boost pedal since it's got a fairly decent eq and a really nice noise gate built into it. The threshold for the gate is adjustable by a small rotating pot on the surface of the pedal. There's also level / bass / treble / and distortion controls. It's also got an XLR out connector which is the only pedal I've ever seen that in before. It also has a neat feature where when you first step on the footswitch the LED is at full brightness and it then gradually dims to nothingness - to conserve batteries! I don't use it all that much since my Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp is a bit better at handling input signals. Another sick pedal I have is an early issue MXR Blue Box - if you compress it just right with the right EQ it sounds like an extremely lardaceous and corpulent mini moog! By itself it's really obnoxious. I also have a Boss Octave divider, as well as a DD-3 delay. Oh! Can't forget the borrowed Ibanez SF-3 Swell Flanger - if you find one, get one - it's a sick and amazing pedal! Todd Madson. http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:42:12 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: a good book >Jon Morris writes: >>another interesting book dealing heavily with improvisation: > >Another is the new Eddie (Edwin) Prevost book (he's the percussion guy >in the seminal non-idiomatic improv group AMM). I haven't started in >yet, but I've heard it's great. Wow, mention of Bailey, Braxton and Prevost, on a list about looping! This really great, a place where it's cool to talk about esthetics and gear, something very rare on the net. Anyway, Prevost's book (No Sound is Innocent) is a must-read for any improvisor. It's a series of short essays that I go back to and ponder often. Deep stuff. Another great text is "Stockhausen on Music", which is a collection of essays and interviews. Very inspirational -dt Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 01:05:15 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Compression Devices For those of you interested in compressing a guitar signal in a way that works reasonably well, try putting the compressor as close to the source as possible. I found out the benefits of this arrangement back in 1980 when I played one of those oddball Gibson RD model guitars. In addition to having active electronics on-board (ie a preamp w. active pickups) it had on-board compression and expansion too (circuit designed by Bob Moog). The sound of this setup so ammazed me I bought one (ugly as it was) and it has become my main axe for the past 16 years. The RD was unfortunately one of Gibson's "Edsels" (a product too advanced and/or too wierd for its time (or any other). It didn't take too long for it to slip into oblivion. However the electronics did live on for a few more years in other models of Gibsons (LPs, SGs, and others) that had this as an option. One might try vintage guitar magazine for locating something like this. For those who do not want to buy a new guitar but might want the same effect (pun intended), you might try pestering the folks at my place of employment (Seymour Duncan). Last year they "beta tested" some on-board guitar electronics packages that included a compressor circuit (and some other interesting things too). They never made it to market because, in the end, they didn't think enough people would buy them (even though they worked rrrrreally well). As a matter of fact I snapped up one of them myself and replaced the innards of my trusty old RD. If enough folks called, maybe they would reconsider the decision not to market the thing, and/or just perhaps they might still have a few of those beta units left around. It never hurts to ask...(just don't tell 'em I said so okay?). Ted Killian killinfo@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:22:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The hidden parts As a matter of fact, this seems an interesting off topic thing. I found myself experiment a little on melody and "non-said". I've tried on written melody of myself, or other well known, to find ways of simplify (Oh, does it exist, simplify???) the melody by deleting notes, of course trying to delete notes that would not affect the harmonic/melodic/emotion content. In fact it is this thing Salieri said about Mozart music that gave me the idea "too many notes". Seldomly, it works. Most of the time, not on other's melody, a little on mine. But that would mean as well that i'm writting to heavy melodies, and not that i'm sliding into the implicit part of music (ie, the darkside of the force?) Olivier Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:45:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Odd pedals... In the "it's-for-nothing-i-got-this-obnoxious-toy" department, I found an old OD-9 Ibanez overdrive last week for the equivament of 10 US $. Like it's name implies it -NOT- it is a fuzz and not an overdrive, but it has a rich Fripp like sound that i was not expecting from this little piece of junk. Combined with a slight touch of distortion (tube in my case) afterward, it gives spectacular corpulent sound... Olivier "OH No, the Gear Acquisition Syndrome is hitting me again" From: Jon Morris Subject: Re: a good book To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:44:05 -0500 (CDT) > Another great text is "Stockhausen on Music", which is a > collection of essays and interviews. Very inspirational > > -dt > For a nice short & sweet intro to Stockhausen essays and interviews, there's a small collection called "Towards a Cosmic Music" which talks equally about musical technique and "spiritual" matters such as the design of the cosmos (a phrase Stockhausen uses often) and other more general topics that may not be directly relevent to most discussions on music, but are very amusing at the least. I'll have to get a copy of the Prevost book- I had the good fortune to see AMM play live here in Austin, Texas (I have no idea what forces got them here, but I won't complain). Those who may be interested in group improv or free music in general should investigate their work. The guitarist, Keith Rowe, does many amazing things to/with his instrument. Seeing as most of us listmembers are playing fretted string instruments, perhaps a discussion of prepared guitar techniques would be relevant? I couldn't see so well from my seat at the AMM show, but he had his guitar on a table, and played it with various obejects: springs, nails, metal ruler, bits of junk, and he also had some kind of pick up at the nut. The kinds of sounds that came forth from his instrument were other-worldly to say the least. I bought a CD at the show, their label is: Matchless Recordings and Publishing 2 Shetlock's Cottages, Matching Tye, near Harlow, Essex CM17 0QR, UK Tel: 0279 731 517 I don't know how easy it is to find their recordings in the US, there's a specialty record shop here in Austin that carries a lot of experimental/improv music and they've probably got some AMM CDs which I could pick up for any interested folks. Also, there are a few used gear shops here. Austin's slogan is "live music capital of the world", it's actually amateur music capital - and most of the live music in town is guitar-based. Since many of the guitarists (who are a dime a dozen) are tube-heads, vintage used gear abounds. I'll keep my eyes open for TC sustainers and cool gadgets that seem to come up on the list. (although I'm keeping the first TC compressor- I'm using a Morley compressor pedal that's pretty noisy) loopy, -Jon From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:45:44 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang michael, wie gehts... I tried the boomerang in dallas and enjoyed it. I've talked to the makers also. they live in and around dallas - I'll try to find my notes. the boomerang does some interesting halftime things and reversals all in a single floor box. seems like I coulda gotten a full blown for less than $500us collier Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:04:03 -0700 (PDT) From: rpeck@PureAtria.COM (Ray Peck) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: a good book >I don't know how easy it is to find their recordings in the US, there's a >specialty record shop here in Austin that carries a lot of >experimental/improv music and they've probably got some AMM CDs which I >could pick up for any interested folks. Gino Robair / Rastascan sells them mail order. Contact GinoRobair@aol.com and tell him I sent you. From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:03:00 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The beginning.. On Oct 7, 1:13am, Olivier Malhomme wrote: > think, and they did loops with.... Vinyls! They had old black records with > many looped on it. The record did not play from beginning to end but had > each track(drill?) with a loop. Long ones on the beginning of the record, > little ones in the end. They stacked up to 8 phono at a time... > Hell I don't remember the name of this thinb Boulez set in motion it was > like Centre d'etude et de recherche musicale or something... > > Olivier Olivier, Piere Boulez is daddy of IRCAM of France. my prof Xavier was director for 5-6 years. I'll get his background on this and post it too the loopgarougroup collier From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:45:14 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: You asked for it... a quicky here... Drill Recordings/Bzar Records just released "Band Crazy", a benefit for Multiple Sclerosis. It is available at most all record store chains and is in the books ... tower, barnes & noble, etc. Point is, they just sent me five copies - with the inclusion of track 11 collier hyams "scream" it's currently going for adds in college radio... cool huh? point is, if you wanted you could add it to the megalist for available recordings. collier (yes, I'm still behind on email) From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:20:58 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: musique' concrete jon and all, one of my prof's, xavier chabot of IRCAM, is an experiment on such things. varese, stockhausen, austin you name it. as a matter of fact, we're doing research on such things at the momment. he performs with flute, mac, max, lexicon gear. also, silicon graphics(sgi), nextstations, max and other IRCAM designed sound software. Ircam has been a major player in such areas. one of the pieces he did included using several old revox tape machines with trigger pedals and other external triggers. trippy... collier From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:15:18 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hyperprism kim and all, i'm behind on my email, but this is concerning interest in looping gear and such. sampler: k2500 (kurzweil), the new EMU, good akai... etc. personally I've been using samplecells in the same machine as max,vision,protools,hyperprism,waves etc. some folk say that samplecell has died, but I have it and it works. software: tons of neat stuff. check "lickmachine", "BigEye" from STEIM, IRCAM's "Audiosculpt", shareware like soundhack and tons more. most of the good stuff is of course super speciality and you have to hunt it down(part of the fun) I'm burnt on the one finger midi wizard sound sampling cd's. ron mcleod(osc) does the "poke in the ear with a sharp stick" sound cd series. it's interesting. there is lots o' stuff out there. best thing to do is get alchemy and a portadat and make your own loops and samples... oh yeah, alchemy is very important, and also turbosynth. is that some info to start with? collier From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:55:52 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hyperprism On Oct 4, 9:45am, Matthias wrote: matthias, jah, wie gehts? I know titos... (Georges Jaroslaw) for about a year and a half. also he is old friend with one of my professors. call him or email him for your suggestions. the echotranz runs on ppc(looper), but hyperprism also runs 68k and tdm. georges lives in san fran with his company, arboretum. look up www.arboretum.com how are you? good? collier > I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs > and contains all kinds of effects. > Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a > looper, the way we like it? > Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? > > Matthias > > > >-- End of excerpt from Matthias Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:21:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The hidden parts Speaking of hidden parts, here's a cute trick I picked up from Roger Miller's "Maximum Electric Piano" work. In one piece, he builds up an ever-denser wall of noise, until it's just washes of sound. Then he "cut out" a piece of the noise, an empty gap a couple of seconds long. This makes the noise sort of rhythmic. Then he starts playing a very pretty piano part over it (not really in time to the loop), with this wash of noise passing by in the background. Very clever, very effective. Fripp did something similar on one of the pieces on "Let the Power Fall", but because of the consistency of Fripp's tone source, it works differently. The Roger Miller "Maximum Electric Piano" work is terrific stuff for fans of looping, btw. He used a Yamaha electric baby grand (the dinky one with strings for on-stage use) with Cage-style preparations (slide piano!). This went into a volume pedal, a couple of fuzz boxes, an analog delay, and an old Electro-Harmonix 16 Second Delay for looping. With the prepared piano and fuzz, he could get lots of effective percussion and sustaining tones as well as standard piano, and he's a creative and radical musician. It's probably really hard to find now. I saw Roger Miller in concert then... maybe 20 people showed up. He made $100 and the bar lost money. We were sitting in a semicircle around the stage, gaping open-mouthed at this phenomenal wall of sound pouring out. I think it's the best one-man show I've ever seen. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 02:51:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Boomerang >michael, wie gehts... > >I tried the boomerang in dallas and enjoyed it. I've talked to the makers >also. they live in and around dallas - I'll try to find my notes. >the boomerang does some interesting halftime things and reversals all in a >single floor box. >seems like I coulda gotten a full blown for less than $500us > >collier Thing that bugs me about the boomerang is the low sample rate. Only 16khz! That means an audio bandwidth of about 6-7khz, probably. Might be ok for an electric guitar with humbuckers, if you're not very picky. For the half speed mode it cuts the sample rate in half, meaning about a 3khz bandwidth. You'd probably notice the poor sound quality if you recorded in that mode, unless your instrument of choice was a sine wave. For $500 I'd want better audio quality. These days, the cheapo multimedia audio codecs sound reasonably good and only cost a manufacturer about $4. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:10:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu, sanderso@cyberg8t.com Subject: PERFORMANCE ANNOUNCEMENT: Andre LaFosse BFA recital Hello loopists, synthesists, and others; here's an upcoming gig which you may be interested in. I'll be staging a solo performance at the end of this month (Wednesday, October 30, to be exact) which some of you may be interested in. The show will be my mid-residence guitar recital at the California Institute of the Arts, located at the northern edge of the LA Sprawl in Valencia, California. I'd like to invite anyone in the Southern California area (or anyone else who's into a bit of travelling) to attend. The recital will be a completely solo endeavor, utilizing striaght unprocessed guitar, loops via an Oberheim Echoplex and Lexicon Vortex arrangement, and guitar synth work triggered via a combination of Roland GR-50 and Korg O3R/W sounds (nearly all of which are self-programmed or modified). The show will be staged in a five-way pentaphonic speaker system, with loops driving one stereo pair, synths driving a second stereo pair, and the unaffected guitar accounting for the fifth point in the sound field. The audience will be situated surrounding me in a semi-circular arrangement, with the speakers surrounding the audience and myself. The material will run the gamut from wholly improvised to wholly pre-composed and from placidly tonal to gratingly noisy, with most of the music falling somewhere in between those extremes. It'll be an opportunity for me to see how far I can take real-time processing of the guitar in a live performance setting, and also a fairly rare chance to experiment with a heavily-immersive sound environment for myself and the audience. If anyone is interested in attending, please contact me via E-mail so that I can provide more exact directions to the school and the performance hall. Also, since Cal Arts is a small school, security generally runs a manned post at the main gate during evening hours, so I may need to leave a list of visiting individuals with security to ensure that access can be granted. The recital, again, is at 8:00 PM on Wednesday, October 30. Anyone interested in checking out the show, or finding out more about the school, is more than welcome to attend. Many thanks, --Andre LaFosse From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: MY ECHOPLEX IS BROKEN That's right, the thing's on the fritz. When recording a loop, say, one note, the note will decay at a relatively normal rate, but then suddenly cut completely out after falling below a certain lvel. I've tried this in several different modes, with and without threshold, and nothing helps it. I'm also noticing quite a bit more digital noise on the looped sound during recording and playback than I previously have. I had previously been unable to tell the original signal from the loop, but there's now quite a bit of aliasing I can hear. Can Kim or anyone else *please* send me any information that can help. I am UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES prepared to send the unit to Oberheim, since it has been well-documented on this list that they have had very poor customer relations and have in some cases kept Echoplexes several months without communication. I'll take the unit directly to Kim for work if need be (and if possible), but as my previous post mentioned, I have a very impotant gig coming up, and if I cannot get the Oberheim repaired, than I'll be forced to cancel the performance. Unfortunately, I'll also be forced to seriously reconsider the long-term feasibility of trying to work with what increasingly appears to be a highly bug-ridden machine with no official support available to it. So again, if anyone can offer help, then please do. Otherwise, my days with the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... --Andre Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: MY ECHOPLEX IS BROKEN That's right, the thing's on the fritz. When recording a loop, say, one note, the note will decay at a relatively normal rate, but then suddenly cut completely out after falling below a certain lvel. I've tried this in several different modes, with and without threshold, and nothing helps it. I'm also noticing quite a bit more digital noise on the looped sound during recording and playback than I previously have. I had previously been unable to tell the original signal from the loop, but there's now quite a bit of aliasing I can hear. Can Kim or anyone else *please* send me any information that can help. I am UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES prepared to send the unit to Oberheim, since it has been well-documented on this list that they have had very poor customer relations and have in some cases kept Echoplexes several months without communication. I'll take the unit directly to Kim for work if need be (and if possible), but as my previous post mentioned, I have a very impotant gig coming up, and if I cannot get the Oberheim repaired, than I'll be forced to cancel the performance. Unfortunately, I'll also be forced to seriously reconsider the long-term feasibility of trying to work with what increasingly appears to be a highly bug-ridden machine with no official support available to it. So again, if anyone can offer help, then please do. Otherwise, my days with the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... --Andre Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: Update on Plex problems More on my malfunctioning Echoplex -- It has come to my attention that the rack containing the Echoplex had, previous to my latest ill-fated endeavor at running it, *fallen off of a chair*. To make matters worse, the face plate for the rack was apparently not affixed when this happened, so the rack modules landed knobs-first on the floor. I unscrewed the top of the Plex, and both the knobs and the circuit boards seemed intact and (visually) undamaged. My assumption is that the board affixed to the knobs would have suffered damage more readilly than any other part of the unit, but it appears undamaged. (Though the two left-hand pots do make a bit of a wierd mechanical noise when turned, there's no readilly audible affect in the actual sound signal). Nonetheless, the loops continue to suddenly cut off when the volume dips below a certain level. And perhaps it's my imagination, but it sure sounds like there's more aliasing on the loops than there used to be. At any rate, the situation remains rather critical for me. What I need to know is who I can take the unit to and expect to get the thing back repaired (or for that matter, to simply get the thing back). I'm prepared to hop in the car at a moment's notice and head up to the bay area for the necessary repair work, but I need to know *soon*. Again, thanks for any help, and for any speed with which it can be rendered, --Andre Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: Update on Plex problems More on my malfunctioning Echoplex -- It has come to my attention that the rack containing the Echoplex had, previous to my latest ill-fated endeavor at running it, *fallen off of a chair*. To make matters worse, the face plate for the rack was apparently not affixed when this happened, so the rack modules landed knobs-first on the floor. I unscrewed the top of the Plex, and both the knobs and the circuit boards seemed intact and (visually) undamaged. My assumption is that the board affixed to the knobs would have suffered damage more readilly than any other part of the unit, but it appears undamaged. (Though the two left-hand pots do make a bit of a wierd mechanical noise when turned, there's no readilly audible affect in the actual sound signal). Nonetheless, the loops continue to suddenly cut off when the volume dips below a certain level. And perhaps it's my imagination, but it sure sounds like there's more aliasing on the loops than there used to be. At any rate, the situation remains rather critical for me. What I need to know is who I can take the unit to and expect to get the thing back repaired (or for that matter, to simply get the thing back). I'm prepared to hop in the car at a moment's notice and head up to the bay area for the necessary repair work, but I need to know *soon*. Again, thanks for any help, and for any speed with which it can be rendered, --Andre >That's right, the thing's on the fritz. > >When recording a loop, say, one note, the note will decay at a relatively >normal rate, but then suddenly cut completely out after falling below a >certain lvel. I've tried this in several different modes, with and >without threshold, and nothing helps it. > >I'm also noticing quite a bit more digital noise on the looped sound >during recording and playback than I previously have. I had previously >been unable to tell the original signal from the loop, but there's now >quite a bit of aliasing I can hear. > >Can Kim or anyone else *please* send me any information that can help. I >am UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES prepared to send the unit to Oberheim, since it >has been well-documented on this list that they have had very poor >customer relations and have in some cases kept Echoplexes several months >without communication. I'll take the unit directly to Kim for work if >need be (and if possible), but as my previous post mentioned, I have a >very impotant gig coming up, and if I cannot get the Oberheim repaired, >than I'll be forced to cancel the performance. > >Unfortunately, I'll also be forced to seriously reconsider the long-term >feasibility of trying to work with what increasingly appears to be a >highly bug-ridden machine with no official support available to it. So >again, if anyone can offer help, then please do. Otherwise, my days with >the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... > >--Andre